Breaking World Records with Miriam Laundry [Ep. 62 of The Writer’s Way Podcast]

Introducing Miriam

Introduction

Laurie: Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Writer’s Way podcast. I’m here with Miriam Laundry. Thank you so much for joining me today. 

Miriam: Thank you for inviting me. 

Laurie: You’re welcome. I think we have a mutual friend Charmaine, who was on a few weeks ago when she said, you have to talk to Miriam. So here you are.

Miriam: Great. 

Laurie: Yay. So how about we start with you, you know, take us back to the beginning. How did you get started as a writer? Or were you always a writer? 

Miriam: Okay. Sure. No, I was not always a writer. I’ll take you back to 2012 when I decided that I wanted to write for children, and that came to me mainly because, you know, as a lot of times that happens.

Um, I went through a tragic experience where we lost my niece to suicide. And, uh, and this was, she was 17 and it was the day after I had just given birth to my son. So I was already, you know, full of emotions and this, yeah. This just added to it. And, um, you know, I was spiraling into my own, into my own hole.

And my husband suggested that I attend a seminar that Jack Canfield puts out a week long seminar called “Breakthrough To Success”. We had attended the previous year. So he said, why don’t you just go to that. And, um, and just get away. 

So I left my eight week old baby and went because I knew that I needed, I needed something or I was, uh, I may not have been okay. So I went to that. And I mean, it was a, a wonderful week where you’re in a room with 400 people. You’re learning about positivity. And I mean, all these great, great things. Jack Canfield is the author of the “Chicken Soup for the Soul” books and the “Success Principles”. And all I kept thinking during that week was, this is so good.

Why aren’t we teaching kids this? Maybe if we would have taught. You know, my niece this, when she was younger, we wouldn’t be, I wouldn’t be going through that. So I wanted to get home and teach my children some of these empowering things, and I thought on the flight home, the best way to do it was to write a story about it.

And that’s how I started writing. I wrote my first draft to “I Can Believe in Myself”, which is my first book. On the flight home. I had no idea what I was doing. I had never written anything. I never thought of being an author, but I got home. I contacted a friend who had written several books and then it just all started from there.

And. I’m sorry, I cannot hear you. 

Laurie: Sorry. That was my pause button. I was just saying, some of us, you know, some people say, I’ve been writing since I was five and then I’m more like you and inspired by an idea and sit down and write and you have no idea what’s going to happen next, but it just still comes out of you.

Miriam: That’s 

Laurie: right. 

So then what?

Miriam: So then I, well, I got into the writing platform, looking into how do I write a children’s books and children’s book? And, um, I mean, I read so many books on it. I took a couple of courses. Found coaches. And um, and then my book was out, was to be released within a year. So the anniversary date of, of all of this happening for me, my niece’s passing. And I continued to attend Jack Canfield seminars and, and the next one that I attended, I wrote a goal that I wanted this book to empower 100,000 children to believe in themselves.

And it was a huge goal. It was. It was so huge. Then when I wrote it, I dropped my pen cause I was, it scared me so much. But with any goal, the more you think about it. The more you give yourself time. My mind started looking for answers. How can I reach 100,000 children? And maybe a month later or so it came to me, go for a Guinness world record.

I was trying to think of what’s something big I can do. I mean, I calculated how many schools do I have to visit? And it was really. And I set a date for myself. Right. So it wasn’t realistic. So going for Guinness seemed a little bit more realistic. 

Laurie: Wow. 

Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. So I, 

Laurie: So what’s that process like? Do apply for? 

Miriam: Yes, yes. So, I mean, it took me nine months to organize everything. And to find the people to preregister. So many people to participate in this record. The record that I have is the largest online book discussion in a 24 hour period. So I had schools and families reading the book and then going online and they were just leaving a comment.

What’s something that you can do now? What’s something that you’re going to go for after reading the book? So yes, that’s up nine months of planning. But in the end we got it. I, I timed it with mental health awareness week in Canada, which is in May. And yes, schools all over Canada in 26 different countries actually were participating and we got the record.

Laurie: Wow. Did you stay awake for the whole 24 hours? 

Miriam: No, but I barely, 

Laurie: yeah, cause you’re excited. I’m all about sleep. Right? I’m like wait a minute!

Miriam: Excited and worried. What if this doesn’t happen? And I’ve, I have so many people. Wanting to know what, what the result is. I had the Guinness adjudicator here in my hometown for the, for about two days.

And, uh, I mean, there’s always problems, right? Are we had, um, a time that it started the 24 hours started, so I emailed everybody, now’s the time. So our systems crashed, of course. 

Laurie: Oh no

Miriam: Yes, but I mean? So what happened was our website company opened two other servers to be able to take in all these comments.

But in the end, Guinness only approved one of the servers. So our record, I think has 33,000 comments, but we know, I know in my heart we had 103,000 people participate, so we still got the record. 

Laurie: Wow. Congratulations. That’s fantastic. 

Miriam: Thank you. 

Laurie: Oh, and are you still coming down? 

Miriam: This was in 2014 and I have to say my, the reason why I did it was out of my, my want to do something for my niece and to honour her. But in the end, looking at it now, it was a great marketing thing.

I didn’t think of it of that at the time, because I had 103,000 people participated. Knew about my book. Were purchasing the book. It was easier to get into schools. To do workshops and presentations. So it was, if you’re teaching about marketing, I say, think big and go for that and go for that.

And when you. 

Laurie: Oh sorry, go ahead. 

Miriam: I’m just going to say when you align it with something that’s meaningful to you, people want to help. I had people come out of everywhere just calling, emailing me. I heard through a friend that you’re doing this for children for mental health. What can I do to help?

So when you think bigger, you attract more people. 

Laurie: And people want to help, but just they don’t always know how. So you have to tell them. How? So, I’m curious logistically, like how did, how did people in 26 countries hear about you? Where are you calling? Where you emailing? Where you… 

Miriam: Well, I was, every day I was calling mainly schools.

I figured if I focus on schools, then I can sign a couple of hundred people, a couple of hundred children to do this. So the teachers would be doing it with the students. Sometimes schools had a thousand kids in them, but I, I told everybody I knew I was doing this and I continued to take courses through Jack Canfield.

So I met a lot of people from different countries and it was them that took it other places. I’ll, I’ll share quickly. There was an organization that reached out to me. Uh, they’re called Nikken and they’re, um, um, multi. they sell things. Um, what is the word? Like a multi, not multimedia company, but you know, you have people that sell under you and all, all this sort of thing.

And so they were able, um, they completely supported me. So they have representatives, sales people all over the world. So they had me on like they took me on as if this was their project. So they had me on calls with people in different countries all being translated. Interviewing me. Why I was doing this. Completely supported me.

In the end, they opens a crowd funding campaign to pay for the Guinness adjudicator to come. So that really helped in spreading the message. 

Laurie: Right. They got behind you cause they believed in you. In your purpose and your message. 

Miriam: Yes. Multilevel marketing. That was the word I was looking for. 

Laurie: I haven’t heard of Nikken.

Miriam: Yeah.

Laurie: Okay. So I’m curious because you talk about dreaming big and thinking big, and this is huge. Like what did you do before? So I know, you know you had children. What did you do before? Did you have any marketing experience? Or any like, was that your job? 

Miriam: The marketing? No, was never my job. I did have a business previously. I’ve always been self employed for the most part. I started buying real estate when we were, my husband and I met in college and we started buying real estate. So that’s always been, we still do that. 

And then for about seven years, I, I sold a product called Alphabet Photography. So I met this girl that was starting this company and I just asked her if I could partner with her, cause I really believed in it.

So she would go around and take photos of objects that look like letters of the alphabet. All together to make words. Last names. So you are the first in Canada. I, her and I separated our businesses, but I had the rights to sell it at craft shows. So I actually went to Alberta many times to the big craft shows to Art Fest, um, Circle Craft in Vancouver, lots of the, One of a Kind in Toronto. So I did that for seven years. Yeah. 

Laurie: Oh, wow. So you had a bit of a business background, but not necessarily the marketing, but 

Miriam: Not necnecessarily, the marketing just always business. 

Laurie: Just always business. I think that would help a little bit. When I started, I was, I had been a teacher, which isn’t businessy. So there was a lot to learn. There’s still is. 

Miriam: But you had the children already in mind. 

Laurie: Yes. That’s where my inspiration came was from, seeing the changes in children over a 10 year period. I taught kindergarten. And, um, so you and I actually write about similar things cause your books are all “I Can” books, right? And uh, my first one was “I Can Handle It”.

And it’s, um, all those little issues that if we don’t teach them that, you know, they can try and attempt and tie their own shoe and, you know, sharpen their own pencil. If they don’t. Uh, if they’re not given the opportunity to do that for themselves, then they’re not gonna be able to handle bigger problems when they’re teenagers.

So, so similar motivation to you without the heartbreaking, um, impetus there. So,

Miriam: Yeah. Well, it’s exactly the same. I don’t talk about mental health or suicide in my books. But the idea behind, “I Can Believe In Myself” is teaching children to let go of the word can’t. Because I believe the word can’t is, it’s the worst word in our vocabulary. It stops us from even trying, right? So that’s what I teach in that story is just letting go of that word can’t, and going for the can instead. And actually going for it. And I mean, there’s so much around it, but. 

Laurie: Yeah. And you’ve done that, you’ve lived that yourself. Can you share about cause you also have a book written with Jack Canfield.

Miriam: Yes. 

Laurie: So can you share how that happened? 

Miriam: Sure, sure. So I, uh, okay. I wrote the story for “The Big Bad Bully”. It’s called “The Big Bad Bully”. I have it in front there. 

And I wrote the story probably about four years ago. When my, my 12 year old was standing in front of a full length mirror. Saying things like, mommy, why are my legs so short? Why is my hair so frizzy? Why do I have so many pimples? She had just started breaking out. And as moms, you know, we’re always saying, what are you talking about you’re beautiful? 

Laurie: You’re beautiful.

Miriam: But nothing, this time nothing was working. She just continued to criticize herself. So I finally went up to her and I, I grabbed her by the shoulders and I said, stop it. You’re bullying yourself. 

And she just completely stopped, like just, just stopped. And I could see that she understood and she was thinking about it because the last thing she wants to be is a bully. So the thought that she was doing it to herself was enough to get her to stop. And that started a long conversation between us, about, you know, the way we talk to ourselves is bullying.

Sometimes the things we say to ourselves in our minds. Is bullying. We would never say that to a friend. So why is it okay for us to say it to ourselves? 

Laurie: Yeah. 

Miriam: So after I was finished with her, I thought, okay, if, if she is going through this. And I mean, I’ve been working with her for years on all these things. Then there’s going to be a lot of kids going through this.

So I wrote the story of “The Big Bad Bully”. And, and when I had the, I had it written and I had it edited, I thought, okay, this one I’m going to send to a publisher because I wasn’t in a hurry with the first three books in the “I Can” series. I always felt like I was in a hurry to get them out. I wanted to do it for my niece, so I didn’t want to wait the years that you wait with regular publishing.  

So once I had it all done, I just allowed myself that morning to think big. I was about to send it to a Canadian publisher. And I thought, okay, if I was to think bigger, who would I send it to? Okay, a big publisher in the States is what came to mind. And then I thought, okay, well what if I was to think even bigger? What would I do? 

I would ask Jack Canfield to coauthor it with me. So I sent him an email and I said, Jack, I wrote this story. It’s everything you’ve taught me. It even has one of his exercises, the mirror exercise, which I did with my daughter that night. And I said, I’m about to send it to a publisher.

But I’d love for you to coauthor it with me and add more exercises. And I said, but I need to know by, I think it was tonight, tomorrow night, cause I’m ready to send this. And he emailed me back, and he said, let’s talk tomorrow!

Laurie: Wow!

Miriam: Yeah. So that took several years to actually get it published. It’s four years later. So we have the book. It was worth the wait. 

Laurie: Oh, congratulations. 

Miriam: Thank you. 

Laurie: So, which a publisher did you end up going with? 

Miriam: We went with HCI books healthcare inc, which is, um, um, they’re the publishers for the “Chicken Soup for The Soul” books that Jack did. Yeah. It is difficult to get a publisher. I have to say that even with Jack’s name, we were rejected by a couple of publishers. 

Laurie: Oh really? You didn’t start with that one cause you had that past experience. 

Miriam: Yes. No, because they had never published a children’s picture book. 

Laurie: Yeah. 

Miriam: He wasn’t thinking them. But 

Laurie: Can you. Oh, sorry. I was going to say, can you open it up? Because when I, when you held it up, it actually looked like a chapter book. So is it a picture book? 

Miriam: It is a picture book and it’s a little story. It’s just, it’s 400 words long but in the back. Jack has added, I think about six self-esteem building exercises. For kids to do, or for teachers to do with their students. Yeah. So in the back, no photo, no pictures, but just more of the exercises.

Laurie: Oh, that is so needed. That is so needed today. In our schools and 

Miriam: I agree. And so are your books. I was, I did a quick look at them. Exactly. We need more books that empower children. 

Laurie: Yeah. It’s that it’s that self talk, like you said, we have to change that while they’re young. Hopefully, you know, make the new tracks for them to follow when they’re teenagers. And. 

Miriam: Yes and hopefully there’s not as much cleanup, like when we’re adults. This is why I go back to, I love going to courses where I’m learning about positivity and how to talk to myself. And how to, you know, daily comments on building ourselves up because we weren’t taught that as kids. 

Laurie: And it is ongoing, isn’t it? It’s something, you know, especially as women, I find with my hormones, you know, like I, I know all the good stuff and then I can wake up one day and still be a bully to myself unintentionally, until ya know something triggers and wait, wait, what am I doing? But it’s like, it’s a never ending process, sadly.

Miriam: And I have to tell you, I’ve been told many times that this could be a book for women. Also, like we, we, we still go through that. I’m not saying men don’t. But I mean, I don’t relate to them, so I don’t know what they’re thinking. 

Before the book came out, I had a couple of years before it actually came out. So I would go into my children’s schools and other schools and read it to kids. I wanted to know. What the great, what the best age for them was and who related to it the most. And I have to say a lot of boys related to it. Even though the main character, is a girl. For them, it’s things like, I didn’t make that shot in hockey. I didn’t get that goal. I didn’t get picked for the team.

So there’s, they still have that negative self talk, but girls share it more. 

Laurie: I think so, yeah. And it’s more about our own selves, like our bodies. 

Miriam: Yeah, 

Laurie: Like the appearance. 

Miriam: That’s right

Laurie: It’s our culture, I guess. So you’ve had the experience with self publishing and traditional publishing. Do you have a preference or pros and cons of both?

Miriam: Well, I, I have pros and cons, but I think it’s too early to tell. The book just came out October 29. 

Laurie: Oh, okay. 

Miriam: Very new. I mean, pros and cons, we all know them. With self publishing, you, you have complete control of your book. You own all the rights. And this is what I really liked. And with a traditional publisher, they own the rights to the book.

And in the end they could have said, this is what we’re going with. Luckily with HCI books, they let me be the creative person behind it, and choose was the illustrator and then approve each one of the illustrations with Jack. But I know that most publishers don’t let you do that. 

Laurie: Yeah, that was good.

Miriam: Yes, and I mean, in terms of who owns the copyright, they do. So we’ll see how that goes. It’s still very early. It is really nice to have the support of somebody else. You know, self-publishing it’s me doing everything and including all the marketing. So, so that has been nice to have a little bit more support.

I mean, you still have to market your own book, even though somebody else is helping you. It’s really up to you, right? 

Laurie: Yeah, absolutely. Always. Sadly. . 

Miriam: Yes. And I feel another pro and con is that with self publishing I was able to do to publish them quicker. Usually it would take me about nine months to publish a book, to finish it from beginning to end.

And with them it took a couple of years. Um, yeah, so there’s pros and cons for everything. I would say try both. And see, so ask me again next year. 

Ok, 

Laurie: I’ll have you back. How did you find your illustrator for your “I Can” books? 

Miriam: The “I Can” books, I went on to a, actually a Canadian website that has a lot of illustrators. I’m not able to think of the name right now, but I just looked at portfolios and reached out. I remember I reached out to 10 illustrators and asked them for some, if they could draw my character and only a couple of responded. So I knew from there I was very lucky for the “I Can” series is that, look, I chose a local illustrator and I love everything she did. 

For this one because, Jack and I chose it. We used an agency and the illustrator is actually from Spain. So that was interesting. And it was nice. It was nice also. And she did a great job. Yeah. 

Laurie: Oh good. Yeah. It looks beautiful. 

Miriam: Thank you. 

Laurie: It looks really nice. Would do you have, um, you know, something who stands out as good advice for. Well, I know that you advise authors, so is there one piece of advice that you would give to somebody starting out on their writing and publishing journey?

Miriam: Yes. I mean, I have two. The first one that came to mind is to align yourself with people that are already doing what you want to do. So in terms of hiring a coach or finding mentorship, finding a little tribe of people that are doing the same thing. What happens is that a lot of times, we work on a story we, we perfect it and then we lose momentum and we throw it into a drawer and then we forget about it.

So, I mean, it happens for everything, right? With exercising. With dieting. With picking a course. It’s, you have to find your little tribe. To help you through it. To keep you motivated. So that’s what I would suggest. Looking, looking for some help or people that are doing the same, same things, positive people that are doing the same things.

Laurie: Yes. 

Miriam: And then the other thing that came to mind is, um, remember your why. It was my why, my reason for writing and the thought of what happened to my niece and not wanting it to happen again with my children. That kept me going. And I mean, there are times when you get tired of doing something or things don’t work your way.

It’s very easy to give up. But if you remember why you started. It’s going to help you until the end. 

Laurie: I love that. So many people say that, you know. Remember your purpose always because the easy to forget and the day to day grind, right? 

Miriam: It’s so true. When I was going for Guinness, I mean they were long days. And I just kept thinking like I’d be getting up earlier and earlier every day because I thought I only have another month. Or I only have another week .And why am I really doing this? So, so that’s just, it keeps you going until the end.

Laurie: So now the Guinness record was five years ago. Are you still riding a wave from that or, or is it kind of over and done? Or how do you feel about that now? 

Miriam: Oh, well, I’m glad that I did it. I like to have a big project. I don’t know. There’s something about that that I like.

I like to do things that are a bit different. Like Guinness. With this book, we planned the virtual book reading. I thought that was really cool. So for, “I Can Believe”, I’m sorry for “The Big Bad Bully” Jack Canfield, and I actually did a virtual book reading where we read the story and then Jack took the participants through different exercises. Self-esteem building exercises.

So, the whole idea of the summer was to get people preregistered for it. So I liked that it’s, we’re providing value and then we’re also, it’s a bit of marketing. We’re also capturing leads. People that are interested in what we’re doing to be able to offer them something else down the road. So I’m not sure that, does that answer your question? What was the, what was the initial question? 

Laurie: I don’t know. About the Guinness world record because I feel like, like for example, a few years ago I gave a TEDx talk and so people hear that, you know, they’re, Oh wow. But you know, like it just seems like it’s so long ago and then you move on.

There’s so many more things. And so when I heard about your record. It was like what! But it was five years ago. So I was just curious if 

Miriam: Yes, well people still bring it up. Like you just did. I had another interview earlier today and they brought that up. Some, doing something out of the ordinary that most people don’t do was good.

I did a TEDx talk a couple of years ago and I agree. People forget about it because we’re not out there promoting the TEDx talk, right? Um, it’s still a nice little thing to have under your belt. That you, you’ve done that a lot of people want to do a TEDx talk, so it’s really neat that you were chosen to do them.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah. And you. Just one of those goals, I guess, like, Oh, I should do that. That’s right. 

Miriam: And it all helps, right? 

It helps us become better people. Better speakers. Offer more value. So yeah. Not everybody has to remember it, but when they see it. I think they, they think, okay, that’s cool. I’ll look into you some more.

Laurie: And so you mentioned the mentoring and getting a coach and all that, and you actually provide those services for people. Do you want to tell us a bit about that? 

Miriam: Sure. Well,  I just chose. I was. I just chose my six authors to work with in 2020. So, um, my deadline was last week. So, when I started writing, I wish I could have had a mentor. Like somebody that would have helped me from beginning to end. Because I found myself, I mean, I read a lot, I went into different, I took different courses. I hired different people. 

But nobody helped me from the beginning until the end, and I wish I could have found that because I would have absolutely hired them. I feel like I spent way too much money and I would’ve saved myself time and a lot of money had I had somebody’s expertise to help me. 

So I decided to offer that this year. I mean, through the years, I’m sure, you know, people always call or email, can I pick your brain? Can you give me an hour of your time? And I’ve never said no to anybody. But my husband was keeping track like how many hours have you spent? And really lots of hours. But I want to help people because I was there.

So I, I’m was offering this year, mentorship 10 months where they come with their stories. I would help them perfect it. Take them through the whole process. And in the end, I would publish, I will publish their books under my company, Laundry Books. 

So I’m, I’m really excited about that. Uh, I was looking for empowering children’s stories, because I want these books out there for my children. I know that other people are looking for them. But I will be offering it again mid next year. So again, looking for more authors to mentor. And what that looks like is through masterminding. So every other week we get on a call. It’s keeping, it’s about keeping the momentum and learning along the way. And making it to the finish line.

Laurie: Yes. Sticking with it. And you narrowed it down to six. So was it difficult to? 

Miriam: Yeah, it was a little bit. It was I have to say, but I chose stories all different. All about empowering children.  

Laurie: Oh, I love that. That’s great. You can never have too many empowerment books. 

Miriam: I think we need more and more. That that’s where we’re headed, right? It’s the whole growth mindset. It’s teaching them young. 

Laurie: Yes. Yeah. When they’ll still listen to you because they don’t listen once they’re teenagers. 

Miriam: Absolutely. How old are your children? 

Laurie: My eldest is 11. So he’s still the, it depends on the day, right? Right now he’s making his case for a, for a cell phone and I’m very resistant, cause it’s just a can of worms, but we’ll see. 

He’s, he actually, he pulled out a really good point on me. He said, mom, I need to learn this while I’m still young, like before I’m a dumb teenager. Cause I’ve always said, you’re going to lose your brain when your a teenager, like, it’s just going to happen. You know, there’s no, there’s no avoiding it.

And he said, well, before that happens, I should learn now. And so my husband was listening. And he said, Oh, he’s got you there. 

Miriam: Oh yeah. My children, my oldest ones, I have a 16 and a 14, 14 year old twins. Um not twins, teenagers. I’m sorry. Teenagers. They have. I have heard them before, quote me on one of my books. Didn’t you tell us that we should 

Laurie: My kids every once in a while they go, Mom, can you handle that? You know when I’m not handling something? They pull that out. Well, played. Well played, yes. Okay. 

Miriam: At least they’re listening, right.

Laurie: They’re like, yeah, they’re listening to some of it, right? They choose. Okay, so where can people find you, Miriam, if they want to look for your books? Or look for your, your mastermind maybe in the middle of next year? 

Miriam: Yeah. All the information is on my website miriamlaundry.com. Laundry, just like it sounds, think clean laundry. Miriamlaundry.com or find me on social media and follow me. I like to put a lot of good content out there. 

Laurie: Oh, fantastic. And I love that you Canadian. Yay for Canadians. Did you. I am curious to where a lot of the authors you worked with or you chose, cause it’s new, like are they Canadian? 

Miriam: Actually they’re half, half. Three are Canadian. Three are American.

Laurie: Okay. Curious. I always feel like it’s like needles in haystacks and people find me and, Oh, you’re Canadian. Because there’s, yeah, I just ends up, I work with so many Americans, but 

Miriam: Yes, because it’s such a big country. I think the population is so large in the States that’s, that’s. 

Laurie: That’s probably it. Yeah. Everybody’s online. [unintelligible]

Miriam: It doesn’t matter where you’re from, right? 

Laurie: Oh, I know. I’ve worked with somebody in Greece and somebody in Guam. And that was definitely the most unique. I was like, where are you? That’s so exciting. But the time difference, it didn’t work very well for calls, but it just, yeah, it’s a whole new world, right?

Like the internet just, I sound like such a old lady when I say that, but I just love it because you know, you meet new people all the time. 

Miriam: Yeah, and I mean, I think that’s one of the greatest things that we do, right? We’re able to work from home from the most part so that we can be home to be with the kids or go to different events, sporting events and all this.

This what I’m finding. So I have four, I told you the two teenage girls and then two boys, 12 and seven. 

Laurie: Oh wow. You have a spread. 

Miriam: I have a, I have a, I have a good spread. And they’re all super active. But I love them. It’s fun. Yeah. 

Laurie: Yeah, that’s good to keep them busy and 

Miriam: lots of creation for books. 

Laurie: Yeah. I always say I’m the parents at swimming lessons with a notebook as my kids are screaming in the pool. It’s ok! I’m just gathering intel for my next book. I don’t know. It’s always swimming lessons. Well, thank you. I won’t keep you any longer. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and getting to know you and I’ll share all that info in the description. 

Miriam: Thank you. Thanks so much, Lori. I appreciate the call.

Laurie: Oh, thank you. Me too. Okay, bye bye. 

Miriam: You keep doing all the great things you’re doing. 

Laurie: Thank you. Thanks. I will. 

Miriam: Thanks. Bye. Bye. 

Laurie: Bye.