Pursuing Your Purpose [Ep. 56 of The Writer’s Way Podcast]

Introducing Nicole

Laurie: Hello writers,  it’s Laurie here at The Writer’s Way podcast here with the fantastic Nicole Hoye. Yeah! Published! So exciting!

Nicole: Thanks for having me, Laurie. 

Laurie: You’re welcome. It wasn’t too long ago, right? How long has your book been out? 

Nicole: Yeah, so it launched on October 2nd, 2019 so not too long ago at all. 

Laurie: So just over a month because we’re recording this in November. Awesome. Okay, so why don’t you share with everybody. Who you are? What you do? How long have you wanted to write a book? And what the book is! 

Nicole: Perfect. So my name is Nicole Hoye. I am a mom, a wife. I’m a teacher and assistant principal in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. And I would want to write a children’s book for as far back as I can remember.

It actually was a book that I wrote that sat on my computer for well over three years. And so I wrote it as almost a journey through my teaching because I had lost my flair for teaching and I had gained it back, um, after realizing that I needed to be better for my students and for my own children.

And so when I wrote that story on my computer as my own kind of healing and personal journey, I did want to publish it, but I was super fearful of what people are going to say. Especially teachers because I wanted it to inspire teachers and to remind them of their brilliance, but not talk about. You know too much about teacher burnout, but really have an inspirational message.

So I had gone to something in Calgary called Transformation Weekend, and they talked about your why and your purpose. And if you could meld those two together, then you would have basically. Your, your work would not be work. It would be something that was joyful for you. And I thought, I have this story on my computer that talks about my why and talks about my purpose, but it’s just sitting there and I have to get it out into the world.

So I went home after that that weekend, and I knew that this story had to be published. And so I just started figuring out how I was going to do it, which has brought me to publishing it almost less than a nine months after I really decided I was going to publish it. It was born October 2nd. 

Laurie: Oh, wow. Um, our stories are so similar because my book as well sat on my computer for 10 years and it wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t worried about, um, coworkers. I was just so fearful, you know, it’s just so vulnerable, that creative process and then sharing it and it is like a baby that your birthing.

Nicole: I know and opening up your words to other people, was what, I think held me back.

But then when I heard someone else say. You know, when you have a why and a purpose that’s strong and that you know that the world needs to hear that story. I thought this is my chance, and if nothing else was going to tell me, this is the chance that it will never happen. So I knew that it had to come off my computer and get into the hands of the publisher and then get into the hands of readers.

Laurie: I love it. And I, so you actually work at a school that I used to work at, which is the funny, so a teacher we both know is who sort of hooked us up, but um, it’s so important. 

Like teacher burn out really is a huge thing, especially where we are right now. There’s all kinds of cuts, all kinds of stress, mad rants on Facebook all the time.

It’s probably the same all over, not just Canada, but the U S. It’s just the state of things. Sadly. So, your book sounds like something that could help so many teachers. So they’re reading itto their kids. And it’s helping them as well. 

Nicole: Absolutely, and I took it more of a spin of, like I’d said before, um really didn’t want to be super dreary and negative, so I wanted to be a children’s book and be fun for teachers to read, and parents and students.

So it has more of that kind of teacher wellness model to it. And really it follows the life of a teacher who loves what she does. Um, it has lots of flare and excitement in her day to day. Does really crazy and amazing things with the kids, like we all do as teachers. But then goes through a stage where, you know, all the workload and worry and doom and gloom kind of does creep in a little bit. And it takes the courage of one brave little boy that doesn’t say very much to kind of stand up and, and kind of question her and where her flare is gone. And so then she regains it back. And that’s because of the help of the students.

So it’s really an ode to teachers, this book, but it’s meant to enlighten anyone who’s lost their flaire for anything in life. So it doesn’t have to be teaching. It could be a passion that you’ve once had that maybe you don’t have. You know. But you’ve kind of lost sight of, but you want to redeem that.

It’s for students as well to see themselves in what their flare is. And I love that. At the back of the book, I had, I kind of through the publishing process, if they’re one of the editors, she had said to me, have you ever thought about putting questions at the back of the book? And I hadn’t at first.

And I thought, what a great conversation piece for teachers to have with their students. That really gives them direct feedback. So there’s some questions in the back of the book that talks about um their teacher’s flare and what makes them special. And so it gives immediate feedback to teachers on what they’re doing really well in their classroom.

Then it talks about student individual flare as well. And so how they can connect those together. 

Laurie: Oh, that’s brilliant. Holy cow. The teachers will want to read that every day. Tell me again. 

I love that you’re empowering kids as well to just speak up and say to their mom or their dad or their teacher, like, what’s going on?

It’s not the same, you know, and what can I do? So I love that. So you, you decided you went to that weekend and you decided it was your time. You started Googling. What does you find when you started Googling? 

Nicole: So, yeah. So I, I didn’t obviously know at that point that I really hadn’t, like I, I thought it was going to publish this book, but then really hadn’t thought about it.

So after that weekend, and I got that kind of kickstart. I knew I had to do the research. So like you said, I just started Googling like self-publishing, traditional publishing. Looked for about a month about the differences between that self-published and traditional publishing. And I didn’t know really what was right for me.

But then I had talked to a friend of mine that had published a book through a small company here in Calgary. And so she said, why don’t you just talk to them and just see what they can offer. They had only published one children’s book before. And so I didn’t really know if they were interested and, but then I called her, uh, her name is Heather Andrews and she’s the owner of Follow It Through publishing here in Calgary.

And so we just had a conversation on the phone that lasted much longer than I had anticipated and so she really walked me through what it would look like with her company to publish. And so talked about how different editors would be involved, how she could help me find an illustrator if I wanted to, but, or if I wanted to have my own illustrator, she could bring that person in as well.

She talked about that, how she would help walk me through the Amazon process once it got to that stage. And then I had also brought up, um, my own idea of wanting to do a hardcover book. Um, through, uh, another Canadian publisher, I’m sorry, printer. So we kind of melded a bunch of different ideas together and came up with a plan.

So she really customized it for me. And so she didn’t have like. An absolute. This is how we’re going to do it step by step. Um, that was kind of a cookie cutter plan. She really worked with me to develop a plan that would work for me and for what I wanted. And then looked at the timeline and kind of, I wanted it to be published for world teacher day this year, which is why the October um release, cause world teacher days was on, it was October 5th.

Um, so we had a, a pretty good timeline, but we knew we wanted to work with. So once I decided that that was the right the right way for me, that I would still have so much input into a traditional publisher. Um, I really wasn’t wanting to wait years and years of trying to go down that road and self publishing completely on my own was a bit too scary still.

So I needed that middleman to kind of help me with that. And so, um, Follow It Through was wonderful in walking me through that path. 

Laurie: It sounds like they were, some of the project managers 

Nicole: Absolutely 

Laurie: Laid it out for you, and you so you knew exactly what part, what part you had to do. So who ended up finding the illustrator?

Nicole: So actually it was through Heather that we found the illustrator because she was one of her graphic designers. And so she had done some, some children’s, a children’s book before, several, actually. Um, and also had done lots of sketches and different drawings that she, and she’s an amazing artist out of Edmonton.

So I started looking at her things online and then we met, um, through just kind of a, a meeting on a zoom call. Actually, she showed, she showed me some more work. She asked me how I would want to see this project, um, kind of unfolding. She asked me how much input I wanted to have. Right down to like, do you want to be involved in the color selection?

And I was like, this is not what I thought it would be. I thought it would be like, here’s my words. You kind of like draw the draw everything and I’ll approve them. But this was so much better than I could ever imagine because we worked weekly on zoom calls, and so she would show me sketches. I would choose a lot of the colors.

She would give suggestions. I would be like, I don’t, that’s not really what I thought. So she was amazing on letting me just kind of have full creative control along with her vision as well, because that’s not my expertise. And so together we were really able to bring both our visions together for the illustrations, which for me, in the end, I had so much more input than I originally had thought, but yet that’s now I would not want it any other way to be, to, to see what’s going on the whole process.

But she was just fabulous and really laid out a timeline for me. So yeah really about kind of six months out what would happen, and then all the way down to like the week before, and we met several times in person as well, because she’s about three and a half hours away. But mostly just through zoom we did it.

Laurie: That’s so fantastic. It sounds like you’re really not lucky, but you were really working with professionals and that isn’t everybody’s experience. That’s really not with that company. Just in general. I think I’ve influenced by what I’ve been reading on Facebook today, but, um, I think that’s, that’s really nice that you have that experience. 

Can you share with us, you don’t have to share with us dollar amounts, but can you share like who you paid? Like did you pay the illustrator or did you pay Heather. You said it was Heather. Just so that people sort of understand fully how it worked for you?

Nicole: Okay. So yeah, right from the beginning when I had a thought, okay, this is the way I’m going to go.

I had a second meeting with Heather and she just said, what do you, what exactly do you want? And they were kind of an all encompassing company in that I needed editing. I needed website design. I needed, I wanted the illustrations of course, and I needed someone to be able to hook me up with a little bit of the marketing background with Amazon and also like how to kind of get the word out there in other avenues.

So she put a package together for me and then we came up with a payment plan that works for the both of us and then paid off, um, the book within like that nine months. So it was, um, it wasn’t a lump sum for me, myself, and then Heather actually, so Follow It Through publishing. They just project managed everything.

So I only paid one party and then she’d, you know, obviously whenever the contract she had with, um, the illustrator or the different editors that were involved with the, uh, website design, then she was the one that allocated that money out. Um, and then in the end, what I ended up doing was hire or, um, hiring Lorraine. My illustrator to do a bit more of the marketing background now, like as we move forward, I’m still working with her because she’s a graphic designer and she’s playing some other things together for me from my website. And also I did end up buying the images off of her. So that was a contract that her and I had privately from Follow It Through.

So then I owns all the images and I, I and the copyright to that. So I purchase those directly off her on a separate contract. 

Laurie: Okay. Okay. That was smart. And then are you listed as the publisher or Follow It Through as soon as the publisher? 

Nicole: So Follow It Through publishing is listed as the publisher and I’m listed as the copyright.

Laurie: Okay. Thank you for, thank you. I hope I didn’t make you uncomfortable, but I know people 

Nicole: No, absolutely. It was the way for me that worked because in the end, looking back, I learned so much through someone else’s, like eyes of being able to walk me through the process of. Here’s, you know, the editing team and here’s your illustrations.

This is how it works on the back end. And in the end, I think that self publishing, absolutely I could have done however it would have never been done to the point that I have done now. Having somebody guide me through the different steps, was an absolute and saves me time. It saved me money in the end. Because at first, when you meet with people and they do lay out your whole project, it might seem overwhelming that it’s a cost thing.

But yeah. When I look back at what I paid and what I have, and I’m so proud of the book and the quality of the book and the marketing behind it that I cannot imagine having done it on my own. So I think it’s well worth the money and to chat to have people that can guide you, and walk you through that process.

Laurie: Yeah, I totally hear what you’re saying, especially when you’re working full time and you’re momming and I think you’re a hockey mom. You’re a hockey mom? Yeah, that’s a lot right there. Do you have a copy of the book there? 

Nicole: I do 

Laurie: Hold it up for everybody. 

Nicole: Yes. This is the hardcover copies. So that’s another thing that was so great working with, um, with Heather and her team is that I had a vision as a teacher of a hardcover, and she had a vision of a soft cover through the Amazon, the way that we were doing things. And I get this cost effectiveness and different everything behind it, but I just really had this, like, I wanted a hardcover, so I. On my own then worked with Friesan printing, which is a Canadian company.

And then, um, my illustrator who’s the graphic designer as well, um, for my website, she helped me with the files because I of course had, did not know much about file formatting and proper. And so that’s what Lorraine, my illustrator did for me as well. So she was able to work with me and Friesan and really the triad of us to get this hardcover copy.

And then I personally purchased those. And then. Basically selling them out of my basement, so I’m doing that separate of the Amazon and then the Amazon is still on there going as well. For anyone who wants soft covers, which I’m really happy with both of them and different people want different things.

So I am, for example, the hardcovers are on my website, but then I’m going to sell them at conventions and when I do those kinds of things where some people choose the softcover. There’s also another Avenue for them as well. 

Laurie: Yes. So true. And for anybody wondering why you needed file manipulation, I can see that the size is different.

So what size did you have there for the hardcover? 

Nicole: So this like, so the inside pages for the hard cover are still eight and a half by 11, which is, which is the same size as the soft cover. However, because of the bleeds, which I don’t even still really understand all this, because like I said someone else had done the files for me.

Um, it had to be larger. So then that’s why the cover had to be very different. Um, and then just the inside formatting was a little off. So I still really don’t understand that, but.. 

Laurie: It’s beautiful. 

Nicole: That’s why I hired someone to do that for me. 

Laurie: Um, so I see that you are already thinking about a second book, but will you use that company for the second one as well?

Nicole: So yes. So I’m going to go through that company as well for my next book, which we’re still kind of looking at a timeline for that book right now as well. So I’ve written that book. It’s on my computer, but I have not touched the editing process at all and haven’t really even started the process yet of deciding when I’m going to release it.

Um, but I definitely know that it takes longer than I thought for that editing process. So I thought the book was done. Of course, it was only just over a thousand words. I’ve had it for three years. I had gone back to it many, many times before, but I did realize, of course, when I got the first structural editor and having many, many conversations with her and going back and forth.

With track changes and meetings, and I thought, wow, I am not ready. Like this is not where I thought it was going to be. It was really quite dreary is what I’ve been told that, and this is what I didn’t want to focus on, was just the teacher burnout, but also not teacher wellness part and radiating your flare and have an excitement for your, you know, your career.

And I, so I had to really think about how I was going to bring that back into the book more. And so she was so amazing to guide me through different questions to get me back to that point of where I want my actual message to be at. And so once I got through the structural editor, not realizing there was a content editors to come, which was like ok! Obviously like both of us being teachers, like I know what takes a lot to revise and edit, but I’m like, I had not realized it took this much.

However, I looked back recently with my grade threes at actually. Just that I’m working with just for fun to kind of look back on a process of writing and revising. And my first, my, my version that I thought was ready is so like in comparison to this, it is not the best writing I’ve ever done.

Right. No, I’m so happy. Obviously I went this route and had all these different editors because they made the books so much stronger and they really honed in on the message that I wanted to provide to teachers, and so they were able to pull that from me. Oh, wow. I’m so happy. I had great structural and content editors because the story is so much better now.

Laurie: And that is such an important lesson because like we were talking about how our words and our books are our babies and we’re vulnerable about it, but the editors really know what they’re doing, right? Like they, but it can be hard. It can be hard to hear and listen. Um. You know, and take that to heart.

Sorry, I’m just reading something here. 

Um, so you know, it’s just good. Like just let, just be open to the feedback. Right? Especially if you’re working with professionals like you were they know what they’re doing. So, 

Nicole: Absolutely. And I’ll be honest, there are, there’s things that they questioned me on that.

I was like, at first my feelings were hurt because I was like, this is my story. Like I lived this. And, but then when. From a different perspective when someone else is saying, but from an outside perspective, this is what it sounds like, and I’m like, well, no, that’s not what it sounds like. And then they’re like, okay then you need to find different ways of explaining it or describing it if you want that message to go through. Because what the editors would say is that in my mind right now, this is what I’m picturing. And I was like, no, that’s not what I want. So I kinda had to get over myself a little bit.

And then there was not very much that they suggested that I got rid of, that I kept like, there’s ultimately, in the end, I knew that I had the decision and I, um, because I was. Also not traditionally publishing. Still. I was still paying for a service and I still got final say on everything, which there was a no, maybe a few little things that they kept in.

And I was like, no, I just really want this to be in here cause I was so, I still had complete control and say over what was in there. But I would say 95% of the things that they kind of questioned me on, I definitely found a way to reword it. 

Laurie: Oh, that’s good. Well, I’m glad because it sounds like the, the end product was definitely worth it.Is your second book about teaching and 

Nicole: It’s a second Miss Claire. It’s a part, yeah. So I, I’ve now made a decision to do a small series, so I don’t know how many books that will entail, but it will be another Miss Claire book. So same character and it’ll follow something along with the teaching it will be to do with more of the students right now versus teachers.

So, um, like I said, the story outline is there and it’s pretty much done. But um I didn’t want to give too much away, but it’s definitely Miss Claire and, um, she has her full flare back and then just kind of sharing it with the students. 

Laurie: Oh, I love it. Okay. So let’s move on a little bit and talk about. Advice. Do you have any advice for authors? Maybe teachers, maybe principals? I’ve actually worked with quite a few teachers and principals, I think because we’re around kids all the time, so we know what they like, what they need. We have so many ideas. But um, so you a year ago, what advice would you have given to yourself?

Nicole: So the advice that I think I would give still to like, now that I even gave myself back when I started.  My own advice, and this is work with for me with lots of things. For example, report card time or planning as a teacher, really time blocking. So looking at my schedule on a Sunday, um, and I would usually time block out for the week, sometimes two weeks if I knew what was happening with, with my own kids’ schedules, but I would really carve out time within the week, and I would write, and what I ment by wright is, even though the story was done, I would go back and do my revisions or my edits, um, during that time, or if I had, for example, something to do with the illustrations that I had to get back to it.

My illustrator on, I would make sure it was time blocked out. So what I would do is I actually am an early riser, so at five o’clock till about six o’clock in the morning, three days a week. So that was three hours a week. I was consistently time blocking book time. So as soon as I got up and got a coffee, I would head down, you know, downstairs and I would work on it for an hour, like no excuses, like phone away.

And that whole time was the book because I knew it was going to happen. I knew I didn’t time block the time. That the book would get pushed to the side and it would not actually get completed and done because. We know we all live busy lives and definitely like I have a few, like I said, full time job and running from hockey to cheerleading, different things.

And I knew that in time block this time for me, the book would probably not get finished. So I would say the biggest advice would be to be consistent with your time. And so I still do that today. So for example, you know, the book is out there. I am learning now what marketing is all about. Trying to get the marketing plan out there.

And what I do now is daily for 30 minutes, I spend time on the book. And it doesn’t mean that it has to be like. That it’s writing another book, but it’s to do with like marketing right now. So right now my time has shifted a little bit and I spend 30 minutes a day, whether it’s reaching out to someone, whether it’s talking to another author, whether it is writing my next book or whatever it is that I’m doing, and doing a podcast when I’m at least working on the book every single day.

So it doesn’t lose traction. And so that’s my next thing. And again, that’s consistent, right? So it’s all about that consistent piece. And I think that as soon as you let other life things get in and you don’t time block that time, I think that’s where it’s going to falter people because it does take daily, I would say, thought and action towards your book.

Laurie: I agree with you 100% everything in life is important. It’s so important, but so is our book and the marketing and all that stuff. Yeah. Yes. I can’t even imagine. You’re a busy lady. I cannot get up at five if I could I would have so much more time. 

Nicole: I couldn’t do it at night. So it’s what works for you. Right. So some people might, even, depending on if you’re writing a book and you obviously have like a lunch break, that’s a longer lunch break, and you’re used to like maybe working through your lunch break, or maybe that’s time you could time block.

If you’re a later night person, then that’s another good time. Right? So as long as it just get that time in that hours in. And then even like now with writing the next book. Um, once I would had published like this and I, or it was all more, almost done kind of in the summer, I started writing the next one that I’m working on.

And again, I just sat down and I had uninterrupted time and my kids also know, and this is book time, right? I would just tell them and now they’ve seen it. It’s actually easier cause they. They’re proud of it as well, and that it’s out there until I say, okay, no, now it’s book time and so, and usually it’s five in the morning anyways, to be honest.

So they’re not up bugging me, but sometimes it’s not. And things get shifted, shifted around. But I’m very consistent with my time. 

Laurie: Do your kids think you’re famous? 

Nicole: They absolutely think I’m famous. It’s so, it’s not even just make kids. It’s so funny, right? Like kids or kids at school or other teachers, and it’s like, Oh, you’re retiring now. I’m like, Oh, honey. I’ve got a long way to go before that happens. 

Laurie: Oh, that’s so cute. My son is 11 and so he has a couple of series like Rick Riordan, for example, and he loves them. And so he thinks I’m in some group of authors. And he says, to me, can you just call Rick and tell him to write his next book? Please? Can you tell him that I waiting and it’s like the Wings of Fire series and then he’s done and he’s mad cause he blows through them and he’s like, mom, just call them. Obviously you know them so. You can just do me that one favour. It’s very cute. 

Have you, I’m curious yotu know, because you work with teachers. Have people come to you and said, Hey, I want to do that too. Like is there much of that going on? 

Nicole: I actually have had that with my own staff, um, in, in my own current context.

Absolutely. I have. And so, and that’s the thing is that it’s, I don’t want to guide people the way that I have gone, only because it works for me. But I also do share my own experience with how I felt this has worked for me, but then giving them lots of options, like saying to them, I’ve learned that there’s many ways to publish a book, and so kind of just letting them know that even if they want to start Googling ideas and keeping a journal, that’s another advice for me is I kept one journal the entire way through.

So then when I go to write my second book. Then, or go to, sorry, publish it. Then it’s all there. So I can kind of look back and like, Oh yeah, this is what I did at this stage, or, and I just  jot note. But at least I can go back and say, what did they do six months out? What did they do three months out?

Laurie: That would be so helpful. Day to day. 

Nicole: That was kind of like a way of, of me. Tracking that time and then being able to give advice maybe to people that way. I’ve also had people reach out on Instagram and, you know, strangers. And to be honest, mostly teachers because that’s my audience for the most part. Um just this say like, you know, I’ve had a story, I’ve always wanted to write a book.

Like how did you get to this point? So it’s even just having a conversation about, yeah, it, it. My to meet you. I always wanted to write a book and, and this is how I did it. And I also think I’ve heard this so many things in other authors, groups I’m part of, or a different people I’ve listened to my podcast that. If there’s something that’s not out there that you think should be out there.

That’s a perfect idea to start. If I was looking for kind of a book on teacher wellness, but connected to kids and there really wasn’t a lot. So then I was like, that’s why this idea kind of sparked for me just with your series too, right, Laurie, there’s not, there wasn’t a lot out there about mindfulness with children, so if you wrote what needed to be written and what you needed or what you knew parents needed, and that’s what I did for teachers.

I wrote something that they knew was needed for them. 

Laurie: I love that. It’s funny, somebody today just reached out to me and she said, do you have a podcast on all the different publishing types? Like a podcast episode, and so I don’t, so I think I’m going to do that in the near future. Cause like you said, there’s, there’s so many different ways, so much information out there.

Is there anything that particularly surprised you, looking back that you weren’t expecting or you thought it would be a totally different way. 

Nicole: Yeah. I think because of the model I chose, I didn’t expect to have as much say in the process because I thought that I had to completely self-publish in order to do that.

I thought that I had to like be my own project manager, that I’d find my own illustrator, my own, um, editors. So when I found the team, I was a little like, Oh, how much input am I going to have? But like I said earlier in the podcast, I had so much input. Sometimes it’s to the point where I’m like, you guys just make a decision, that’s what I’m paying you for,  but they really just wanted me to be happy with the final, and that’s really what it came down to.

So I would, I guess encourage people to know that even if you go through, I’m a smaller publishing company that especially if you are like paying a service for, or I’m not sure there’s lots of models out there. I know, but ask how much input you’ll have. Because if you want a lot of input, I know there’s places out there that you can get a lot of input, and if you’re not as keen on that, then let them know.

I think just being honest with whoever you’re working with, whether it is through a self- publishing or a small publishing company, I’m guessing even traditional have nothing to do with that realm. Um just being honest with people about what you really want for the book. 

Laurie: Yeah, and sometimes it’s hard to even know what you want. You haven’t been through it before. I’ve heard that from other people. I didn’t know. I’d have so much input into the illustrations that it turns out. I really like that. And now that’s the only way I can work. So 

Nicole: And that like, but I worked with Lorraine next time. I’m like, I know. Exactly. And she’s already started storyboarding a couple of things for me. So then I’m like, I have ideas, but I’ll send her like a little idea of like something we could do. So that’s because we and, we’ve worked so well together, that it’s so nice to find an illustrator that I know I’m working with again.

And so I think at this time around, it’ll be different in that we don’t have to get to know each other. Like she could look at my mind for the last couple zoom calls and be like, you don’t like that, do you? And so I was like, no, actually can we change this? And she’s like, no problem. So she got to know me and I got to know her, which is great.

Um, but the biggest challenge for me, to be honest, and I want to, I know lots of your podcasts, I’ve listened to market marketing. I had this. Skewed vision that I would write the book and it would go on Amazon and it would go on my website and it would sell. And it has like definitely I, it’s so it’s selling, but it’s because I have to push it and market it and reach out to people, but it’s not going to happen on its own.

And it’s like even all these hardcovers I have in my basement right now, like. People aren’t going to come knocking for them. Like I have to go out and pound pavement to get them out there. So that keeps me in the game because I know that I also have this like. 

Laurie: Cause you have the books and your house.

Nicole:  Which equals cash in my basement. And so I have to get out there and do that. But I also do believe so strongly in this message for teachers. That I want the book, took it out into teacher’s hands. I really want people to share it with, you know, students and families. And I want parents to see, um, like the delight that you, teachers, you know, get from this book, but also what parents can get from it as well.

And that hence, that question guide is talking about, and that’s the thing that I want it to be all encompassing. So it talks about how your thoughts can be kind of gray and how you can get your flair box. So it, it’s really for everyone, but I really cause the message for me is so important.

That’s what keeps me going. And, and knowing that I gotta figure out this marketing plan and it’s daily, like I just know that I have bigger things for this book and bigger dreams. So I have to kind of go down a different path right now with the marketing. And I have, I’ll be honest, I hired a bit of a team for that because I know I don’t have the time right now.

To give it exclusively. Um, so I, I, whatever I could afford, I was able to hire and have them kind of guide me through that right now. 

Laurie: And did you find them through Heather’s company or is that more online people? 

Nicole: That was through Lorraine Shoba, who is my illustrator. So because she’s just so multi-talented in so many ways that she, that’s kind of her other side gig, if you will. So I was able to work still with her, which has been such a great. Opportunity for both of us. 

Laurie: That’s cool, I think your message is so relevant and important, so I wish you the best in marketing it and getting it out there and sharing it, and good luck with your second book. So we’ll have to book a date for next year. When the second one share about the differences, if there was any in the two books. 

Nicole: Yeah for sure. 

Laurie: Cool, thank you so much, Nicole. Oh, Hey, what’s your website so people can find you. 

Nicole: Yeah, so it’s NicoleHoye.com and then I hang out lots on Instagram at teacher flair, and that’s where like, you’ll just give little bits of inspiration to teachers and you know, families, students, um, through Instagram.

Laurie: Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. I’ll be sure to share those too. 

Nicole: Perfect. Thanks, Laurie. 

Laurie: You’re welcome. Bye. Bye. 

Nicole: Bye.